Notice: This post is made out of frustration and you can leave your thoughts and anger here too.
I am 25, female, german and a freelance photographer. Since a year I am trying to get into concert photograpy with pay. The first 10 concerts I did of course for free to build my portfolio but now I reached the point where I want to get real jobs and some respect for my work.
But as many fellows know it is a hard world out there and you have to give 200% effort to get 2% chance on landing a job. So one of my strategies were writing pm‘s to concert photographers on instagram with the question if they could be so kind and spill the tea about experiences in the business.
Guess what? The answers were vague and short or you would get ignored. Further it would stop at telling the simple thing of which lens they used. I get it that everyone has their own style and tries to protect it but you can nit be replaced that quickly by just helping one out with some info.
Can someone tell me about similar experiences? Is there someone who is not afraid of giving informations about this photography sector? I would really like to not feel alone anymore with this behavior.
Thanks guys!
Summary: Freelance photographer trying to get into concert sector but struggles to get paid jobs. Succesfull photographers won‘t have a conversation about their experiences. Hence their the biggest gatekeepers in my opinion!!
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Why would they help the competition? This is capitalism, you sink or swim.
I suggest you get a book instead of wasting time messaging people who don’t care to help a fellow photographer. https://www.amazon.de/s?k=concert+photography&__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=1FY05BYW3XMYV&sprefix=concert+photography%2Caps%2C245&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
Probably going to get flak for this.
The reason gatekeeping exists is because anyone can do photography. Some people want to think of themselves as a special person, but the reality is that we’re all drops of water in a huge ocean.
I personally hate photography snobs. They’re worse than most of the serious clay shooters(shotguns for anyone unfamiliar) and competitive archers I’ve met in life.
I don’t do photography as a main career. This allows me to undercut the competition by offering cut prices and free photoshoots. I took 1000+ photos for someone for a 1.5 hour photoshoot. I only charged $40. I usually do these kinds of things for free because I love photography and pissing off jerks.
The sad realization is that every professional field is difficult to crack into, no matter what you specialize in.
There was a post about it a while ago.
I suggest maybe go to galleries, exhibit openings and make personal connections. All the while noticing all the little bits & bobs about this sector literally anywhere. Maybe a chat over a drink works better.
But these people have climbed the greasy pole on their own so I doubt they’re very willing to basically help out a competitor who is going to come and get a slice of the same pie.
Also, some techniques they use are probably almost unconscious- they don’t even notice they’re doing something.
Concerts don’t pay, and when they barely do - there’s a horde of desperate photogs willing to fight tooth and nail for those gigs for reasons I’ll never understand…
OP, your honest and best bet is boudoir since you have 0 creep factor when it would come to working with other women in their undies, and this PAYS. Then you can just attend concerts for fun and laugh at those desperate shmucks working them.
There might be a retired concert photographer out there who could be your mentor. Sounds like a long shot but you never know how the stars could align to your favour.
Shortly after I got serious with my hobby as a landscape photographer, I happened to buy some used gear from someone who turned out to be a retired arts professor and professional photographer. He was passionate about teaching and didn’t mind taking me under his wings. We met for coffee and donuts over several months. He was generous in sharing tips and tricks of the trade, including where to find the best but obscure scenic spots in our part of the country.
I hear you and I agree that there can be a lot of gatekeeping behaviour, across photography sectors.
It likely stems from a scarcity mindset, where we think helping someone out directly will hinder our own success. There’s not enough pie!
I’m a big believer in the opposite: that if we all support each other and generate a collective buzz, people start to value us more and there is even more work to go around. There’s pie for everyone!
Anyway, I’ve got experience with concert photography and will be happy to share.
Feel free to DM me!
Thanks for sharing your point of view!
I do think the same way. You dont benifit bad from giving someone a tip. You probably get something in return.
We should stop this gatekeeping mentality. I for one am helping out where I can.
Yeah I’m on OP’s side here mostly. I understand I lot of the points being made here - you’re certainly not obligated to respond to a DM from a rando - but photographers are famous for being taciturn and prickly. We shouldn’t be discouraging her from pursuing concert photography because it doesn’t pay well.
If you’ve shot for free for a while, 1/ you’re the « shoot for free » photographer and frankly you’re just bad for the whole business because you undercut everyone. and 2/ you’re now known as the « shoot for free photographer », good luck trying to get hired for money by people who got you for free or heard from colleagues/acquaintances you work for no money.
Good luck though, everyone deserves a chance, but don’t count on others and do your own thing, it’s also 10 times more rewarding…
Way to overreact my dude. Nothing wrong with building up your portfolio by doing free work.
Not overreacting, telling it like it is. Do not do free work. Charge even a little bit for it because from a little bit you’ll be able to raise your prices. If you shoot for free, you’ll be the free photographer. Hurt your feelings over that? Oh well
Of course they’re gatekeeping, its their income!
There are plenty of resources out there explaining how to get into gig photography.
Bear in mind a lot of people who scratch a living at it haven’t been doing it for a single year, but many many many years, so why are you expecting them to give up their hard earned knowledge to some random stranger from the internet? Talk about delusional and self important.
Yeah this is not gatekeeping.
This is people who you do not know who you have never meet not wanting to take the time to reply to a random stranger online messaging them. I am sure if their work is good they probably have lots of messages asking to use their photos for free, or for them to do free shoots for smaller bands etc… that they also ignore or give short replies to.
There is zero benefit for them to and they are not obligated to take time out of their day to give free advice or lessons to random people.
It would be different if this was part of a class, educational series, or you were talking to them live specifically about concert photography and they refused to share details.
Had this the other day. Lady messaged me on Facebook saying she wanted a photo I posted. Replied a price, she then wanted me to teach her how to take shots using her iPhone. Didn’t want to pay for the photo or “lesson”. I won’t waste my time on random messages anymore.
Gatekeeping is such a bad buzz word
It’s a very real thing and absolutely happens even in photography. Just not in this example.
Gate keeping is the 2022 gas lighting
Concert photography isn’t a lucrative field or interesting filed, other than you get to see some artists for free. There is nothing to it other than the lens you use or settings. What are you expecting from these people? I’d love to see the questions you asked?? It’s just find someone who is willing to pay you and ask to shoot the event. There is nothing more to it.
The answers were vague and short or you would get ignored. Further it would stop at telling the simple thing of which lens they used.
I mean, yes there are gatekeepers, but from my experience this is less about gatekeeping and more about availability/motivation to answer questions. I often get PMs asking for feedback, advice, etc, and I try my best to be helpful, but like most people I have a lot on my plate and it takes actual effort to answer in a constructive and helpful way. You’re asking people to give you their time which has value for nothing in return. Like you don’t want to give your time for free shooting concerts, it’s very feasible that these photographers also don’t want to give their time and effort for free.
Succesfull photographers won‘t have a conversation about their experiences. Hence their the biggest gatekeepers in my opinion!!
I see it more as a cost vs benefit for them. What are they getting out of the conversation? Is it even a conversation, or shooting a bunch of questions at them? At that point, you’re asking someone to mentor or teach you without any value for them in return.
My advice? Find someone who is open to taking on an assistant or mentee. Learn from them while also helping them. There’s value in that for both of you. Just hitting someone up in their PMs with a bunch of questions is not really respectful of their time and the time it took them to acquire the knowledge you’re asking them to just feed you.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
I do see benefits from looking for a photographer to assist them. But I don‘t think its realistic when it come to concert photography. Like what is there to assist or help? I would probably stnad in the way.
About the disrespect aspect: I dont think its disrespectfull of asking questions. Yes, you can just ignore them or answer them. Why does everthing need to be revalued these days? What about just helping someone? We all know how hard the beginning is and then when we get our flow we become these kind of people ourselfs?
That cant be it.
I think disrespect comment is due to the fact that you are venting/frustrated/angry that professional photographers are not giving you the time of day when they have no obligation to. You are acting like it is owed to you or the fact that people are not taking time out of their day to respond to you is somehow bad behavior on their part.
If you want to someone to teach you, to educate you then sign up for classes. Otherwise there are numerous youtube videos where photographers talk about what gear they use their techniques etc… focused around concert photography or any other type of photography you might be interested.
But I don‘t think its realistic when it come to concert photography. Like what is there to assist or help? I would probably stnad in the way.
It could be as simple as shadowing a show and then helping with the logistical stuff outside the concert itself. That would be up to the mentor, etc. You could also potentially assist a photographer in a different genre in the events space in order to learn and then transfer those skills to your own concert work.
About the disrespect aspect: I dont think its disrespectfull of asking questions.
It’s not disrespectful to ask. It’s disrespectful to label someone as a gatekeeper when they are unable or unwilling to give you what you were expecting, especially if they never set that expectation themself.
Why does everthing need to be revalued these days?
I’m not sure what you mean by “revalued.” Do you mean how everything needs to have monetary value? Because I absolutely don’t believe in that. In fact, the commercialization of hobbies is something I actively speak out against. That said, if you’re asking someone to do some work for you (ie: teaching, which is work), they have the right to want something of value in return.
What about just helping someone? We all know how hard the beginning is and then when we get our flow we become these kind of people ourselfs?
You’re currently speaking to someone who runs multiple educational photography communities for free. I spend at least 20 hours a week supporting new photographers, for no pay. I believe in helping new photographers. That said, I also do it because I enjoy it and get value out of it in my own way. That isn’t the case for everyone. Not everyone should be expected to teach (which is a skill in its own right), nor should they be labeled a gatekeeper because of that.
The main thing here is expectations. You can reach out and ask, but don’t feel slighted when you get basic responses in return. Not everyone is equipped to impart their knowledge, or maybe just don’t want to. That doesn’t make them a gatekeeper.
There are people out there willing and excited to help newcomers. You just have to find them. I know in my communities we have some concert photographers. You’re welcomed to join and have some willing brains to pick. Let me know if that interests you and I’ll share the link to our discord where we are most active.
Side note from someone not otherwise involved with the convo: can you tell me more about these educational communities? 👀
Yes of course. I run a 52 weeks prompt challenge every year (2024 will be year 6). I also am taking over the reddit photo class for next year (r/photoclass). Outside of that, I run workshops and one on ones.
It all collides on my discord server. Here’s an invite link.
Oh but also: I love the prompts and that sounds fantastic. Poking around more because I always can use being in community like that. Thanks!!
That cant be it.
Heh. But it is. The entire thread is restating the same things to you over and over.
You’re asking a working professional to mentor you (a complete stranger) for free with nothing to benefit them. It’s not gatekeeping. You can ask questions but not getting a reply or a reply you like isn’t them being rude or secretive. It’s more an issue of you not fully understanding how this industry works. In a world where everyone has an incredible camera in their pocket at all times, my profession as a photographer feels more precious than ever, and I’m only ever really thinking about how I can be improving and growing my own career.
Someone mentioned trying to find a professional photographer to mentor you, and this is really the only good option if you’re serious about the craft. You’ll learn a lot about concert photography in particular, and will also be benefitting the person teaching you. You might even get paid.
If you do end up becoming a professional, you’ll look back at this post and see what we mean.
Concert photography is probably the worst sector if you want to get paid. Here in Belgium it’s almost all voluntary work. Even people I know from organisations like ‘Concert Photographers United’ and ‘Dansende Beren’ don’t get paid.
There are exceptions like if the band pays you to tour with them. A newspaper pays you to shoot a concert. Or become a paid in-house photographer for a concert hall. Selling prints is probably your best bet. They might not be gatekeeping, they might not get paid themselves.
This is probably the rule almost everywhere with some exceptions and indian classical music can be one of them. The debut concert or first time a student does a full length solo performance can be a big deal. Sometimes parents will go the whole nine yards and pay for lobby decorations and a catered dinner for the guests. In this case where the parents are paying for it as a mile stone event they will pay for studio photos for the fliers and the invitations before the event and then also pay for a photographer to shoot the concert event itself. This is an even bigger deal with indian classical dance schools for debut full length solo performances. So getting connected with a school that has a lot of students can actually work out pretty well if you are the photographer the teacher or the director of the school refers to the parents to hire when their students reach the level to do this. This isn’t the only source of income for me but it is a considerable part of my business.
Probably a very similar situation all over europe. I have been doing photography professionally for over 10 years in 2 countries and during my career I have met a total of 0 freelance concert photographers, who have got paid for it. The exceptions you mentioned do exist, but even for them the concerts are usually just a fraction of what they actually do for work.
Concert aftermovies can get you pocket change occasionally if you’re good at making videos, but the concert photography market is absolutely saturated with free shooters, so there’s practically no demand for paid work.
Thanks for your inside. I have lived in Belgium , Antwerp for a couple years as a matter of fact. I did not know this about the organisations… I know it is the worst sector for earning money but it is a the most fun to do in my opinion.
As for shooting for free: There were some comments already on shaming ‚us‘ free photographers because we make the market even more competive as it already is. There is no right way to do it haha…
I helped out a bunch of other photographers since I always also got help from other but turns out most of them were trying to exploit in some way. I am not doing paid work and still lost people due to this.
But I still try to help others but I am more cautious because of my experiences and that’s why I understand these photographers you mentioned
Another point is that concerts still have problems from corona and still are not paid as good as before, I heard of some cancellations because of to less preorders, and that’s maybe also a reason why you are not getting booked as often because they just don’t have money to spare. Also I don’t know your portfolio, maybe your pictures are not there yet but idk.
Good luck anyways.
Also from Germany btw